Comments on CCWblog.org: Confessionism: The Misuse of 1 John 1:9

Jim, Thank you for providing the forum to discuss...

2010-03-22T18:34:57.053-05:00

Jim,

Thank you for providing the forum to discuss such important issues.

Sorry about the anonymous but I am a rookie at blogging (my first post anywhere I think) and it was pretty late when I submitted it. Please call me Kevin.

I am not trying to nail you on anything and this is certainly your website however your article struck me as well written and well intended but incredibly inaccurate. I did read your article again and was alerted to somethng I missed. It was your paraphrase of 1 John 1:5 - 10 or thereabout. You added some things in your interpretive section that are dangerously inaccurate. I respect the fact that you have given great thought over the years to this very issue as I think we are all searching for correct doctrine. Keep up the fight.

First and foremost, you mentioned that there is a "continual cleasing". Did you get that from the Greek? I am not sure where anything in that passage refers to a "continual" or maybe from your translation, perpetual cleansing can be found. As something that goes on and on without stopping. The passage is not contextually refering to salvation but the christian walk or way of life. Believers are being addressed here that is clear. Then you mention "true believers." A believer is a believer isn't he or she? What it denotes is ignorance of truth or Bible Doctrine and not utilizing the proper mechanics and heeding God's instruction to execute the Chirstian way of life.
My question is what is the mechanism or thought process that differentiates the believer walking in darkness or light. How can a believer go from darkness to light and from light to darkness and back again if naming the sin privately to God is not required?

Secondly, you said confession of sin was a "work." Now I disagree. Confession our sin to God the father is following an instruction. But the third class condition of the word "IF" denotes a conscious choice. It isn't IF and we will name our sins OR IF and we won't name our sins but here it is IF and maybe we will or won't. There is a choice here. If we want to gain any ground toward spiritual maturity than we have to name our sins to God the father to be under the filling ministry of God the Holy Spirit. Apart from that I submit that we cannot grow as believers in Christ.

Next, when you brought up the Matthew verse. I thought when that was written the canon of scripture was not completed at that time. I think until AD 70. I have found that 1 John was not written until AD 85 to 95. Not to say that the doctrine of confession was not taught but it is blatantly emphasized in 1 John. The Holy Spirit was not given or the Church Age did not begin until Jesus' perfect work on the cross. I think 33 AD.

Finally, if confession of sin is a work then why isn't turning from sin a work? The act of repentance is a change of mental attitude. A simple unmerited thought process. I would submit that turning from sin is a work but repentance is not.

All the best!

Kevin

Dear Anon, I'm not usually fond of responding to ...

2010-03-22T14:16:46.681-05:00

Dear Anon,

I'm not usually fond of responding to anonymous comments. That being said, I want to thank you for the time you spent writing me. It seems that you are re-stating the thing I'm disproving, however, and not dealing substantially with the essence of the article. I would encourage you to read it over again, if possible. But a genuine thanks is in order for writing and thinking this through. You were kind to do so. JE

Hey Good stuff on your article about "inviting Chr...

2010-03-21T01:37:22.184-05:00

Hey Good stuff on your article about "inviting Christ into your heart." Well done. Faith alone in Christ alone all the way! Also what does Jeremiah 17 say about the heart of man? Really. ponder this. Who are we, as little sinful beings that are headed straight to the pits of hell to invite the almighty savior of mankind, (Ya know, the creator of the universe and all) into the wicked heart or life of man. Shear arrogance.

However, regarding 1 John 1:9 I think you missed the mark completely.

I would humbly like to submit some ideas for you to ponder regarding your position and to add to the discussion.

How do we as believers in Christ, "redeem the time?"

Is not the Christian life (after salvation) an individual walk of steps and moments? Why? How do we pray without ceasing?

Are there conditions on the word "if"? If and we will, if and we won't and if and maybe we will or we won't.

What condition is the word "if" in the text of 1 John 1:9
Meaning the choice of the believer to cite our sins or agree that "yep I did it", is completely part of our spiritual judgement of ourselves. Maybe we will judge ourselves and maybe we won't. We may forget. Then a few minutes or hours later we name our last known sin which also works in retroactive manner to forgive all the sins we missed and also cleases us from all unrighteous which are the sins that we have no idea are sins yet. That is the grace of God at work on our behalf. What an awesome God!

Finally, is there an exclusive and distinct difference between being indwelt by God the Holy Spirit and the filling ministry of God the Holy Spirit?

Sure believers are indwelt and that cannot be revoked but what about when we commit a sin. Isn't there such a doctrine as temporal sanctification? Can God have fellowship with us as christians in a state of carnality? Meaning we are under the influence of the Old Sin Nature. I submit that He cannot. Not until we name our sins (privately) to Him. The first part of 1 John 1 is clear. How can we we have fellowship and walk in the darkness?

Maturing in Christ isn't something that happens through osmisis. That, I am certain we can agree. So what is the kicker?

Simply naming to God our sins to restore us into fellowship with Him. Redeeming the time. We fall out of fellowship when we sin and must confess, name or cite the sin(s) as we remember them to be restored to fellowship.

Also, what is the meaning of greiving the holy spirit? How do we stop?

Nobody said the Christian way of life was easy and in fact, the technical mechanics of thinking correctly (putting on the mind of Christ) requires a lot of discipline on our part. Is the right thing done in the wrong way, right? Nope. Its wrong. I am not referring to ritual but protocol or procedure. Is God a God of disorder? Nope. God in his grace provided a means of spiritual recovery from sin (apart from salvation) for the believer. 1 john 1:9. Therefore, as I see it the christian way of life requires us to follow a proper prcedure to execute every moment of each day. he plan of God. Is it a non-chalant existence where we all win the race or are we engaged in spiritual warefare and need to follow proper orders and protocol to win the battle? Confession of sin is a key point to winning each battle.

What a privilege it is to be living in this dispensation, The Church Age.

Respectfully

Dear Puritan Dilemma: You might wish to note agai...

2009-12-11T12:21:54.156-06:00

Dear Puritan Dilemma:

You might wish to note again this paragraph from the article:

At the same time, I want to assert that naming sins is normal for the believer. In fact, this is the assertion of the text. We freely admit sins to each other and God. It is natural for us to do so because God has given us a clearer view of ourselves. It is within our new natures. We need not feel that God requires we should never name a sin to God. But it is not the aim of our preaching and teaching to get people to enumerate sins to God. We may name our sins on the way to repentance, but we do not do so in order to be forgiven or cleansed. We trust Christ's work for that, alone.

This, and other statements in the post, indicate that I think it is like the believer to confess his sins openly.

At the same time, I have to remain strong on the idea that either this passage points people to the finished work of Christ or to a necessity for ongoing confession in order to be forgiven. If it is the latter, there would be no reason to do it part way---especially if our forgiveness and cleansing from all unrighteousness depended on it. So, the passage does not teach that confession is necessary "a little bit" or "in moderation". It is not necessary at all, in my view, to provide us forgiveness. But it is characteristic of all believers, or those who walk in the light.

Again, we are fallible people. I could in error. But I have labored on this for some time because it seems so important. May God give us all grace not to overstate.

Thanks again for commenting.

Jim

Thanks for your regular, encouraging posts. Howeve...

2009-12-11T11:11:58.244-06:00

Thanks for your regular, encouraging posts. However, on this subject, I think in your attempt to correct an extreme interpretation, you may have gone a little far.
It reminds me of the Preacher that came through town here once and said, "Since the word lives with us, and we are filled with the Spirit, and the Law is written on our hearts, we don't have to study the Scriptures any longer, because what we speak is Scripture!"
Equally, his view on 1 John 1:9 was nearly equal to yours, "Since Christ has already forgiven us, that must mean we don't have anything to confess." Changing the meaning to "admit" is curious as well.
John Gill, Matthew Henry, Boice and a few others would take issue with your stand.
I come from a similar back ground, "Hyles-Anderson", "Lee Robertson" and the like. I understand the issue with altar calls, easy believism, as well as other confusing "process related activities to bring us to Christ", but to remove the confession of our sins before God after salvation takes a huge bite out of most reformed teaching and certainly from most of the dead guys I read.
Of course, I don't promote sitting down and writing out my list of transgressions "John R. Rice" style, then tearing them up and flushing them (I heard him preach that once), but to move from a time of confession of sins to God might put us along the line of the "wesley" perfectionism group, and Finney would hug our proverbial necks for that.
Just a thought, and most likely a lame one at that, but I wanted to go on record as one who would love to see you comment further on the subject.
I love your posts, and enjoy reading them as often as you write. They have helped me more times than you can know!

Thanks David. So glad it has spoken to you. There ...

2009-12-10T12:43:26.680-06:00

Thanks David. So glad it has spoken to you. There is a lot at stake here and we have to read the Bible correctly on this issue. Jim

Very Timley Post. I had been thinking much about ...

2009-12-10T11:20:12.485-06:00

Very Timley Post. I had been thinking much about this recently.

Bob, Thanks much for your thoughtful words. This r...

2009-12-09T10:37:44.692-06:00

Bob,
Thanks much for your thoughtful words. This really helps our understanding. We so often take what comes down to us without deeper thought. Jim

Jim, This is a really important article. Thanks ...

2009-12-09T08:42:52.949-06:00

Jim,

This is a really important article. Thanks for sharing it.

As a former independent fundamental Baptist, I can certainly attest to being confused about this verse. It can fuel a legalistic attitude toward the Christian life for sure.

I think I agree with your position on the teaching of the passage. John elsewhere in his Gospel points out that unbelievers don't come to the light, lest their deeds are exposed. I don't think that we should conclude confession is not asked of believers, but like you say, it should be characteristic of their life. But not a legalistic confession of every sin, or a felt need that they must confess each and every sin for forgiveness.

The point about it being characteristic of believers (believers are those who confess sin) fits with a similar phrase in the Bible. Christians are those who "call on the name of the Lord". Rom. 10:13 gets twisted or misused as a magical formula for salvation, if you call, you will be saved. But "call" is characteristic (see 1 Cor. 1:2 for example). It's not that there is a prayer for salvation that is necessary (as Rom. 10:9 with 13 might intimate). Rather, it is belief that will result in calling on the Lord's name (Rom. 10:14). And belief that stands behind confession (Rom. 10:10).

Anyway, I don't to divert the focus from confession here. Thanks again for your work. I do think studying confession as it is found in the Old Testament would be good as well. It's not like only the NT counts for Christians. But from what I see, it all fits with what your saying here. Believers confess, and when sin affects other confession brings mercy, but it isn't a requirement to find mercy with God.

Blessings in Christ

Bob Hayton